"I want you to pray fer my daughter, she is datin' a boy who is half Catholic, half Muslim." These were the words spoken at a Choir practice, by a woman, serious as can be, at a prominent Baptist Church in Texas, where I was formerly employed. Growing up, Catholic was a synonym for heathen. The Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination in the world. It outnumbers all the Protestant churches combined two times over. It is the oldest Christian Church in History. There are more misconceptions held by Protestants toward Catholics than Americans have for Muslims. Do they worship Mary? Do they worship the Pope? Do they pray to Saints for forgiveness? Are they the evil remnants of an evil empire? Did Luther Save the Day for Christianity? Do they think we are going to Hell?
Something interesting happened about 50 or so years ago. The Catholic Church met in a Council called Vatican II. This is the prelude to that council:
"The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council. Christ the Lord founded one Church and one Church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to men as the true inheritors of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but differ in mind and go their different ways, as if Christ Himself were divided.(1) Such division openly contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the holy cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.
But the Lord of Ages wisely and patiently follows out the plan of grace on our behalf, sinners that we are. In recent times more than ever before, He has been rousing divided Christians to remorse over their divisions and to a longing for unity. Everywhere large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day the movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. This movement toward unity is called "ecumenical." Those belong to it who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, doing this not merely as individuals but also as corporate bodies. For almost everyone regards the body in which he has heard the Gospel as his Church and indeed, God's Church. All however, though in different ways, long for the one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and set forth into the world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God."
I believe the Church is moving toward Unity. I have a passion for this Unity. My questions for you these: How do you think this Unity will look. One Church? A bunch of Churches agreeing on the Apostles Creed. (See Rich Mullins song "Creed" ; ) or Google "Apostles Creed")
The Protestant Church is Changing. The Catholic Church has changed. Do you believe that you are either Catholic, or Protestant or do those terms have any meaning for you.
I know one thing. We can no longer view our Catholic brothers and Sisters like they are Muts to be mixed with other religions. "Half Catholic, Half Muslim."
9 comments:
In high school I attended a weekly Bible study while attending a Baptist Church. I dearly love the man who taught this Bible Study and still do. However, one of the things taught in this Bible Study was that the Catholic sect was a cult. The reason being the worship of Mary. I remember the attitude of this discussion being very hateful and arrogant toward the Catholic community. It bothered me then. It bothers me now. I don't believe the Catholic Church is a CULT, but rather, I think I could learn a great deal from some of the most infuential Christians in history. I've even questioned my Protestant faith in view of theirs.
What a beautiful exerpt from Vatican II.
So, can anyone clarify: Does the Catholic church actually worship Mary?
Oh, THIS is gonna be fun.
One of the reasons for doing this post is for understanding. Christendom is split in a thousand parts. Most of those parts are in the Protestant area. We are suspicious of each other. In conversations with a few of you, you have asked me what do I mean by Christendom?
Christendom has meant different things in different Centuries. I won't go into all of the different permutations of its meaning but underlying all the distortions made by governments of men, inquisitons, Crusades, Emperors who have sought to harness the influence of the Holy Spirit for power, and anything that has attempted to bring the Gates of Hell to destroy it, at the heart of the meaning of Christendom is God's Kindom on this Earth.
We are in enemy occupied territory and God's Kingdom through the Body of Christ on this Earth has begun. The Kingdom of God or Christendom is this: The kingdom was regarded as Christ's and He presents it to the Father; cf. I Cor., xv, 23-28; II Tim., iv, 1. The kingdom of god means, then, the ruling of God in our hearts; it means those principles which separate us off from the kingdom of the world and the devil; it means the benign sway of grace; it means the Church as that Divine institution whereby we may make sure of attaining the spirit of Christ and so win that ultimate kingdom of God Where He reigns without end in "the holy city, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" (Revelation 21:2).
The Catholic Church is NOT a cult. They do NOT worship Mary. Though I may disagree with their ideas about Mary, many are finding that we agree on a great many things and we agree on the most important things, enough to to surely call each other brethren. This is only made possible through the Holy Spirit working in the hearts of his Children.
These kinds of statements may throw you off at first, but remember that we as Protestatns have been had the idea that Catholics are Hell-bound since we were Children. Some might not realize how huge this is, but if you lived 100-200 years ago, a Protestant would NEVER be considered a brother in the Kingdom of God, and a Catholic would have NEVER been considered as anything but an agent of the devil to a Protestant.
I have sat here and read the very detailed responses, well as much of it as my ADHD will allow me too. I come from a very bible belt protestant background, and to spike this bowl of punch my dad is a preacher, so whammy. Naturally I was initially raised to believe that the gods of Catholicism were Satanic in nature. It sounds so extreme, but trust me this is the natural conclusion by many, many predestinates out there, and most of which are radical and contemporary in their belief. I'll get to that in a sec. I was taught that they worship Mary etc.. etc.. I don't feel I need to go on because most of us, being protestant, or from protestant background already KNOW this, and some still believe it. Just for the record my parents have changed on this matter somewhat, and have calmed down the flames of misguided righteousness and just don't talk about it as much, although I believe their conclusion is still the same.
I don't want to sit here and try to explain catholic doctrine there are others much more qualified than I. But as a protestant, which I don't think I can last a protestant much longer, I want to say this. We were taught a lie in our churches, in our homes and in our schools. A lie spun out of fear, loathing, lack of understanding, and fueled by wars fought long ago. What is the Eucharist and why is it so important? What is transubstantiation, and why do THEY believe it? What is a rosary and what does it stand for? What are the mysteries of faith? What are Catholics praying in mass and why? Why do they pray to Mary? Why does that scare you, or make you mad? I challenge every protestant to answer these questions. DO NOT lean on your own understanding. Go to the books, ask a priest, pray, and ask God to filter out any lies. Don't go to the "I used to be a catholic but now I'm a christian" person in your church. I dare say that person never understood Catholicism at all. If you do answer these questions sincerely, and honestly I will tell you what you will find. You will find God. You will find the cornerstone of Christianity and the Christian church. You will find humanity, and it's search and need for God. You will find corruption and chastisement. You will find the nature of God, and His benevolent grace and mercy. But don't take my word for it. Look for yourself.
I consider myself a Christian first, and secondarily a Protestant. I agree that a spirit of unity needs to be fostered among all denominations.
Several years ago, I attended a Catholic mass with a friend and I took communion during the mass. My friend told me that I shouldn't have done that, as Catholic communion is only open to Catholics. Truth is, I knew that before I took communion, but I believe that the Lord's Supper is for all believers, so I took it anyway.
Anon.,
I can sympathize with your situation as I have been in that situation before. I was actually going to do the same except I had a rather loud-mouth friend who said he would reveal to the priest that I was not Catholic. It was very close to turning into a Seinfeld episode right there in a packed Christmas Midnight Mass. As a matter of fact, that friend has already posted here....
thanks for stopping by.
Now, I know, Seth Ward, because I heard first hand from your wife, that you did not in fact, ALWAYS pass up that opportunity to take communion at a Catholic church. That you DID very blatantly TAKE that communion, and that your reason was the same as Anon's reason.
Seinfeld episode, my foot. Buh-loh-nee. Maybe that time.
P.S. I know that is not how you spell bologna, for the record.
What? you took communion in a Catholic church? SHAMLESS PROTESTANT HORE! No, really I would like to have been a fly on the wall to see the rebellious look in your eyes on that one. I have one thing to say about Catholics...I like them. I will leave the intellectual comments to everyone else and spare you my deep thoughts.
OK, I've done a little bit of research. None that I can be too proud of, but substantial, I think. Here's what I've found out about Mary:
Catholics practice veneration, which is the special act of honoring a dead person who has been identified as singular in the traditions of the religion, through them honoring God. Veneration is shown outwardly by bowing or making the sign of the cross. In Catholicism, this honor is distinct from the worship due to God alone. Distinction is shown by the use of different theological Latin terms.
LATRIA = sacrficical worship to God alone
DULIA = veneration give to saints and icons
Now, another word was given to the specific veneration of Mary = HYPERDULIA
The Seventh Ecumenical Council, A.D. 787, was held to restore the honoring of icons, which had been suppressed by the Byzantine Empire of Leo III and Constantine V. The Council stated that since the cross is seen everywhere as a symbol of Christ, so should images of JC, the Virgin Mary, angels and saints. Because the more these icons are contemplated, the more they move to fervent memory of their prototypes. And the more the image is adored, the more the reality of what is there represented is adored. BUT, the claim is that this adoration is different than worship of the one true God.
Scripture used to justify the honoring of Mary: Luke 1:48 "For behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." (spoken by Mary)
Protestants believe that veneration is too close to the worship of God and that one cannot make distinction between LATRIA and DULIA.
Thoughts?
Furthermore, there is the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which exempts Mary from original sin. I find it interesting that this dogma did not come about until the 19th century, I believe. And I'm pretty sure that a major document used in its creation was the Gospel of James, which is apocryphal, but not canonical. The book is claimed to be written by James, but not believed to be done so by scholars. In it the author embellishes the stories of JC's birth found in the gospels of Matthew and Luke.
Now, any Catholic readers out there: Again, this is a first attempt at researching this and I have not gone to any original sources, so correct me if need be, but please do so gently. =-)
Hey fancy, terrific stuff. Some of which I had not heard. The doctrine of the Imaculate conception is THE doctrine in the Catholic Church that I have a hardest time with. I have had my Catholic theologian buddies try to explain it to me and I have come to a truce with them about it, but I still cannot accept it. Of all the Doctrines taught by the church, to me it is the only one without a shred of biblical reference.
Communion of Saints is something that I do not have a hard time with. Sometimes we tend to think that once someone is with the Lord that they have nothing more to do with us until we get to heaven. I don't think so. I believe that they are more with us and a part of us then they ever were. why would we believe that one would stop praying for us once they have gone to be with the Lord. Do they stop caring?
Prayer to the Saints became a superstisious act evolving out of ignorance and an unhealthy fear of God. Look at the artwork of the medieval period and Ren. God is portrayed as holding scales, judging. People were afraid of God and the veneration and intercession of the Saints became unduly emphasized. This does not mean to me that we should throw the baby out with the bath water.
It may seem strange at first, but how many of us has ever felt the presence of some loved on that has passed? I know that I have. I have no problem when these rare awarenesses arise of saying "pray for me"
Why do we feel like that we need to be so alone? Why should we? We are a part of the Body of Chirst and never separated from it. never.
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